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After House lawmakers affirmed sweeping changes to the Endangered Species Act in September, all eyes have turned to the Senate, where Sen. Mike Crapo (R-Idaho) and Sen. Lincoln Chafee (R-R.I.) are expected to take the lead on species legislation. Crapo joins OnPoint to discuss how he might tackle ESA legislation from his position on the Senate Agriculture Committee. Plus, the senator details his reaction to the House ESA bill, the changes needed to get that measure through the Senate, and the timetable for action given a hectic congressional agenda this year.
Brian Stempeck: Hello and welcome to OnPoint. I'm Brian Stempeck. Joining us today to talk about the Endangered Species Act is Senator Mike Crapo, Republican of Idaho. Senator thanks a lot for being here today.
Mike Crapo: Thank you. It's good to be with you.
Brian Stempeck: Let's start with a real general question. We saw the House pass a major ESA reform bill. What's your interest in this topic, and why do you think there's the need for changes?
Mike Crapo: Well, I've been working to try to reform the Endangered Species Act ever since I first ran for Congress back in 1992. And one way or another I'm committed to helping us get this past the goal line and finish the task. In the beginning years of the Endangered Species Act we had a regular number of amendments where we found improvements and increased the effectiveness of the act. But for the last 15 or 20 years we have not had a single change to the Endangered Species Act because of the gridlock that we have faced politically.
Brian Stempeck: What do you see as the key areas in need of change? When we saw Congressman Pombo working on this bill, the major areas were getting rid of critical habitat designation, looking at payments to landowners and that sort of thing. At those the kind of things you're looking at?
Mike Crapo: Yeah, the House bill really does hit most of the key areas, and I think that what we've got to do is to remember that in addition to just focusing on protection of species we need to get the act more effective at recovery. As a part of that we want to have landowner incentives so that we involve the private land owners of this country in the process of saving species. And that would involve incentives, including direct payments to landowners. Working on the critical habitat designations and the problems we have in that part of the bill is also a key part of it, as is involving state and local governments more in the process. We've got a tremendous amount of expertise at the state level that we need to get involved in protecting and recovering species.
Brian Stempeck: Now you're working with Senator Lincoln and possibly on a proposal. What are we going to see from you guys? Are you guys going to have a proposal coming out sometime this year?
Mike Crapo: Well we certainly hope so. We are approaching this in the context of trying to build the necessary consensus, both on a bipartisan level in the Senate as well as in a bicameral way between the Senate and the House before we move forward. We also want to bring into the whole process the private sector, whether it be the private property owner interests or the environmental community and others and make sure that we've got agreement on the basics before we introduce. So we're approaching it in a little bit different process, but we're really dealing with the same issues and working in the same direction as the House was.
Brian Stempeck: Now, do you think this is something you're going to be able to do this year?
Mike Crapo: My hope is yes. When you're trying to build a consensus package like this you never can actually put a timeline on it because the timeline depends on when you get the agreement and the consensus, but we're getting very close. We've got a good working package, many of the same types of ideas that have been in the House bill and we are expanding our working group. I don't know if you're aware of it, we have a working group that Senator Blanche Lincoln and I are chairing, that is seeking to get both Republican and Democrat membership and then move forward. It's my hope that we'll be able to get a bill introduced this year and work in the same vein that the House has to get something in conference with the House and get a good bill moving to the president's desk.
Brian Stempeck: Both you and Senator Lincoln are on the Agriculture Committee. What do you see as the role for perhaps getting some programs on the farm bill to address ESA?
Mike Crapo: Well, you've identified an interesting dynamic and that is that the Endangered Species Act, and certainly the reforms that we are talking about, can be sort of multi-jurisdictional in terms of which committees have jurisdiction over them. The primary committee is the Environment and Public Works Committee, the subcommittee of which Lincoln Chafee from Rhode Island chairs, and he will be key in this entire process. There are other issues, for example as you indicated, some of the land owner incentives that we might be able to work on or some of the farm bill programs in the conservation title that provide federal resources to help private sector, private property owners accomplish objectives for species management could be very critical. So we have things like the wetlands program, the WHIP program in the farm bill and other conservation titles that I think could be very helpful in terms of recovering species.
Brian Stempeck: Now Senator Chafee has basically said that he wants to take a little bit slower pace on this than perhaps getting something done by the end of the year. I mean who is the lead on this? Is it going to be you? Is it going to be Senator Inhofe, Senator Chafee? Who's going to take the lead on ESA?
Mike Crapo: Well clearly Senator Inhofe, as the chairman of the Environment and Public Works Committee, and Senator Chafee, as the chairman of the Subcommittee on Fisheries, Wildlife and Water, will have the lead control over the movement of the piece of legislation. However, as you indicated, there are other committees that could have interests and we would work with them on that. Also this working group, that I chair and that Senator Lincoln helps to chair, is going to have a significant involvement. So although you'd have to say that the committee chairman controls the issue much more than anyone else does, they are very willing to work with us and we have a very good friendly relationship in terms of all of us committed to the process of moving forward.
Brian Stempeck: Now Senator Chafee is having a working group convene basically later this month in Colorado to deal with Endangered Species Act issues. As he's moving forward in this kind of thing, are you inclined to wait for him and see what EPW comes up with before you and Senator Lincoln introduce anything?
Mike Crapo: Well, my hope would be to get something introduced even before that. The Keystone Group, which Senator Chafee is encouraging to move forward in their process, I think is critical. They're working on the critical habitat issue to try to bring together, in sort of a collaborative fashion, a good solution that they can then recommend to us. And I think that is an excellent way to approach the issue. At the same time I don't want to wait to get our other ideas and the proposals that we might have in our legislation out on the table and being discussed and vetted in the communities that are going to have interest in them. So my thinking is that I would rather not wait that long, but that doesn't mean that the process that Senator Chafee is working with isn't going to be critical to the ultimate movement and management of a piece of legislation.
Brian Stempeck: Now I'm going to press you a little bit on the timeframe here. Can we see something this month, next month?
Mike Crapo: Well you know I honestly, I'm not trying to dodge the question, I honestly don't know how to answer it because I'd drop a bill tomorrow if I could. But it depends on when we are able to get that necessary bipartisan support base, which includes the support from both the environmental sector and the private sector outside of Congress and we feel confident that we can move forward. Now if the process moves too slowly I might try to encourage some of my colleagues to drop legislation sooner just so that we can use the piece of legislation as a vetting process. But right now we're trying to do it before we drop the legislation and we'll just have to see how it moves. I really don't know how to answer your question. I'd like to do it this month. I can't predict that it will be ready that soon.
Brian Stempeck: OK, let's talk a little bit about the House bill that passed last week. It passed, it had like 225 votes in favor, it was a lot closer than I think a lot of people expected it to be. Chairman Boehlert of the science committee, when the bill passed, said this clearly shows that you can't get this through the Senate. Do you think he's right about that?
Mike Crapo: Well, he's probably indicating that if there's strong opposition that there will be a filibuster and that we probably can't get 60 votes. And history has shown that that's exactly what has happened to every proposal that has come forward so far. So I would have to say that until we get that consensus that I'm talking about in the Senate that it will be difficult to move in the bill. Now that being said, there are significant parts of the House bill that seem to have broad support. Take the critical habitat issue for one, although there were two different competing proposals in the House a vast majority of all House members did vote in favor of one or the other approaches to reforming critical habitat issues in the bill. So I think that you can see a strong majority in the House being shown for some pieces of the legislation. I also think the land owner incentive provisions, particularly as we refine them here in the Senate, can get broad support. So my idea is that, again, I keep coming back to the process we're working in the Senate, and that is that if we continue to work in a collaborative fashion, in a bipartisan way, and come up with a product that has broad support it could include many of the pieces of the House bill.
Brian Stempeck: If the House bill went before the Senate today, just as is, beyond looking at what everybody else would do, would you personally vote for it?
Mike Crapo: Oh, absolutely. I think the House bill is a very good bill and although we may not be able to get the necessary 60 votes for every part of the House bill, and I don't know that yet, that doesn't, that wouldn't change my support for the whole bill as is. I mean it's a good bill, but my objective here is to make sure that we get a bill that has as much of those reforms that the House has and maybe even some more, that we can get consensus on, through the Senate.
Brian Stempeck: I was going to ask about that. Is there anything in the House bill that wasn't on that, something that you think needs to be added to a future piece of legislation?
Mike Crapo: That was not in the House bill?
Brian Stempeck: Correct.
Mike Crapo: Well you know, there's a lot of things that were, over the years have been tossed out as ideas that we could use for reform and the House bill has not picked up all of them. But to be honest with you in terms of the ones that are gaining support and momentum and look like they have the real potential to get that consensus I'm talking about in the Senate, the House bill includes most of those. So I think that we are going to be trying to refine the areas which we've been working on in the Senate for a long time now and most of which have been picked up in the House bill. And just find that sweet spot where we can move it.
Brian Stempeck: Do you think this is the right time to move ESA? I mean it's the end of the year, the appropriations process is trying to wrap up. You have the hurricane recovery. You have high energy prices. Is this the right timing for this kind of bill?
Mike Crapo: Well, there's never, this is not good timing for any bill, given the pressures that we have to finish the session with the appropriations process and the spending pressures coming from the hurricanes and so forth. However, at the same time, I think that we've got to get moving. Once you get a bill introduced and start getting it vetted and moving through the process then you're at least in a position to be teed up when the timing does improve. And I really do think that by the first of next year some of these year end pressures here will have been alleviated and if we've got something in play then we would have a better opportunity to move more quickly at that time.
Brian Stempeck: As we look ahead to next year Senator Chafee is up for what looks like a pretty tough re-election in Rhode Island, which is, by all accounts, a pretty moderate state, opposed to a lot of these changes that are being made to the Endangered Species Act. Do you think that might slow him down as he looks towards the ESA reform?
Mike Crapo: Oh I don't think so because, again, although there are some controversial aspects of the legislation that is now before us, the process we are working in the Senate is to find consensus, to find those areas where we do have agreement. And where there is a real potential for Senator Chafee to be a leader in improving the act and making it so that instead of just always looking at protection and being less focused on recovery, that we actually increase the focus of the act on recovery as well. And I actually think that can benefit him. So again, it gets back to if there is a big controversial battleground that could be a problem, but if there is a consensus based forward looking solution that is on the table that people are starting to come together and reach that consensus on, I think that he could really benefit from that.
Brian Stempeck: How much have you been working with the White House on this? I know the Interior Department has been involved, Fish and Wildlife Service, how much are they pushing for this kind of bill?
Mike Crapo: In terms of how hard they are pushing for it, I think that they would welcome it, but I think that they are really looking to the legislative process to guide them in terms of what might be doable. They've been working very closely with us. We make sure to be in contact with them all the time and I also work with the White House to make sure that they are aware of what we're doing and that we are aware of what their interests are. But really, I think they're letting us move the process right now as aggressively as we can and then weighing in in terms of their belief about the pros and cons of the various proposals that we're moving forward.
Brian Stempeck: All right Senator, we're out of time. We'll look forward to seeing your bill. Thanks for coming in.
Mike Crapo: Thank you.
Brian Stempeck: I'd like to thank our guest today, that was Senator Mike Crapo, Republican of Idaho. I'm Brian Stempeck. This is OnPoint. Thanks for watching.
[End of Audio]
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