This week, both the United Nations and the U.S. State Department will hold high-level, international meetings to discuss solutions to climate change, post-2012. Will President Bush's State Department meeting detract from the U.N. Framework Convention negotiations? Will the United Nations meeting provide the necessary momentum to accelerate post-Kyoto talks? During today's OnPoint, Yvo de Boer, executive secretary of the U.N. Framework Convention on Climate Change, discusses goals for this week's international climate meetings. He explains why he believes President Bush's "major economies" meeting will aide the Framework Convention negotiations and discusses the challenges posed by China and India. De Boer also comments on the need for the United States to create a domestic climate policy in order to spur international negotiations.

Transcript

Monica Trauzzi: Welcome to OnPoint. I'm Monica Trauzzi. Joining me today is Yvo de Boer, executive secretary of the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change. Mr. de Boer, thanks for coming on the show.

Yvo de Boer: You're welcome.

Monica Trauzzi: Mr. de Boer, the international community is getting set to meet next week, two meetings at the United Nations and also here in Washington to discuss approaches to addressing climate change on the international level post-2012. Starting with the earlier meeting at the U.N., what are you anticipating will come out of that meeting on Monday and will it provide the momentum you need for framework convention negotiations?

Yvo de Boer: Well, that meeting brings together 70 heads of state and government and a number of other international leaders, basically the intention is to get a very clear call that the negotiations on a long-term climate policy need to start. That's the main purpose of that meeting, to launch formal negotiations.

Monica Trauzzi: And you're hopeful that it will do that?

Yvo de Boer: Yes I am. I think there's been a big change in the mood on climate change recently and it seems to be going a positive direction.

Monica Trauzzi: How do you see President Bush's meeting of major economies, which takes place Thursday and Friday, how does that play into the overall process of trying to create a post-Kyoto policy? Is he detracting from the framework convention's work?

Yvo de Boer: No, he's not detracting from the work. This is an initiative which he announced at a G8 meeting earlier this year, very much intended as an input into the larger U.N. process. But what he's trying to do is bring together a small group of countries that are the major emitters of greenhouse gases to see if within that smaller group it's easier to get a sense of direction on what they're willing to do.

Monica Trauzzi: In June, as you mentioned, the G8 put out a statement saying it supported a meeting that committed to taking strong and early action to battle climate change. When the president announced his meeting he suggested a focus on aspirational goals. Are the goals the same, the ones that the G8 put forward and the ones that the president put forward? Do they match up?

Yvo de Boer: Well, the goals that Germany originally proposed to the G8 are quite different. Those were much harder targets than the ones that President Bush is referring to. But I think its all part of an ongoing debate and, in fact, I think in the end you'll see a mix of goals and targets of different kinds.

Monica Trauzzi: Is the U.S. trying to delay negotiations by holding the major economies meeting?

Yvo de Boer: No, it's not. I mean the U.S. committed to the process that was outlined at the G8 meeting, which is for negotiations to be advanced in Bali in December of this year and then concluded in 2009. And the president's initiative is set to conclude in 2008. So that's well in time to the international negotiations.

Monica Trauzzi: So have you been given any reason to believe that the U.S. is trying to step away the United Nations negotiations?

Yvo de Boer: No, not at all. I think this event is intended to contribute towards that and I believe it can fulfill a useful role.

Monica Trauzzi: In your eyes, what should a post-Kyoto policy look like? Should it be binding? Should all of the countries have to abide by the same standards?

Yvo de Boer: I don't think you can get all countries to abide by the same standards because their economic conditions are very much different. I can see for example binding targets applying to rich countries, to industrialized countries, and targets of a different nature being applied to big developing countries like China and India. So I really think we need a varied approach.

Monica Trauzzi: So if the major economies would need binding targets how do you get the U.S. to sign on when the president has said that he doesn't want to sign onto binding targets?

Yvo de Boer: Well, I think its part of a negotiating process. You know we'll hopefully in Bali, in December, begin a negotiating process which will be completed two years later in 2009. And the main purpose of that process is to find out what people find acceptable and what they don't.

Monica Trauzzi: Would voluntary targets work if that was in the final agreement? Would that be something you'd be happy with?

Yvo de Boer: I think a voluntary target, if you write it into an international agreement, which gives it more formality say, that's a step in the right direction. The point is that the more formal the target is, than say for example if it's legally binding, the more confidence there would be in a carbon market that's then used to achieve those targets.

Monica Trauzzi: You're responsible with getting this deal done by 2009. President Bush has said that he doesn't want to sign onto a binding agreement. Are you confident that you will meet the secretary general's deadline?

Yvo de Boer: I certainly hope so. I mean it's difficult to be confident about the outcome of a process that still has to begin. But in two years time I think a lot can change and a lot will change.

Monica Trauzzi: A lot can change meaning in 2009 we'll have a new president in the White House?

Yvo de Boer: Yes, that's one thing. I mean I see a lot of political enthusiasm here in Washington about the question of climate change. There are currently 12 bills on climate in the Senate and the Congress. Eight of them have an international dimension, so I think people here very much want to engage on this issue.

Monica Trauzzi: Is the Kyoto Protocol a failure?

Yvo de Boer: Absolutely not. Well, you could, I suppose, say it's a failure from the point of view of the atmosphere, from the point of view of climate because it's only managing to reduce greenhouse gases by a little under 5 percent. So in that sense you could call it a failure. But the fact that the international community has come together and put in place some very important architecture, including the carbon market, is I think a huge achievement.

Monica Trauzzi: So what are the lessons learned from Kyoto that we need to apply as we try to create a post-Kyoto treaty?

Yvo de Boer: Well, the first one would be to get out of the black and white box, to have just countries on the one hand with targets and on the other countries that don't. I think we need a more varied approach. Secondly, I think there's a lot we can do to improve the carbon market to make that more flexible. And thirdly, it's going to be really important to help developing countries to adapt to the impacts of climate change.

Monica Trauzzi: OK. And China and India are obviously two major factors as the world tries to reach an agreement. How big of a factor is China in the work that you're doing at the framework convention? What steps are you taking to ensure that they're going to sign onto something?

Yvo de Boer: Well, China is absolutely critical. After the United States it's the largest emitter of greenhouse gases. What I find encouraging is that China has very recently put in place some quite ambitious climate change strategies and policies to make its industry more efficient to phase out polluting power plants. So the sense that I get is that China is willing to engage on this issue and, in fact, is acting.

Monica Trauzzi: But they say only if the U.S. signed on to something will they sign on to something.

Yvo de Boer: Well, in a way that's a bit of a chicken and egg situation. These are two of the biggest emitters of greenhouse gases in the world and having a climate regime without either one of them as part of it doesn't make an awful lot of sense.

Monica Trauzzi: You mentioned that there's a lot of enthusiasm here in Washington on the climate issue. How important is it for the U.S. to create its own domestic policy in order to facilitate the international negotiations?

Yvo de Boer: I think that's critical. I mean I think the people here will not sign up to an international deal if credible policies aren't in place at the national level. And the sense that I get from talking to senators is that they basically want to get their own house in order before embarking on the broader international debate.

Monica Trauzzi: So looking ahead to the Bali discussions, what are you expecting will be the outcome? Will negotiations be mandated or will there be an acceleration of the current dialog? What are you expecting?

Yvo de Boer: An acceleration of the current dialog would not be enough. I think we clearly have to begin formal negotiations. So what I hope for is a decision that will launch the negotiating process, a decision that will indicate what elements need to be negotiated, and that it will set a timeline when negotiations need to be completed.

Monica Trauzzi: All right. We're going to end it right there on that note. Thank you for coming on the show.

Yvo de Boer: You're very welcome.

Monica Trauzzi: This is OnPoint. I'm Monica Trauzzi. Thanks for watching.

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